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when luke was on dagobah and about to save his friends, obi-wan and yoda advised him not to go and that it would destroy everything they had worked for for. What did this mean exactly? I have been thinking about it.
Also I thought that maybe Luke taking his own decisions into his own hands was part of what made him a Jedi. the fact that he thought for himself - in doing the right thing. Maybe thats what makes up a Jedi. There are probably basic codes of conduct for jedi...but maybe its up all to the person to make the right decisions to help others.
what do you think?
Also I thought that maybe Luke taking his own decisions into his own hands was part of what made him a Jedi. the fact that he thought for himself - in doing the right thing. Maybe thats what makes up a Jedi. There are probably basic codes of conduct for jedi...but maybe its up all to the person to make the right decisions to help others.
what do you think?
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Re: Luke's decisions
Sun, February 20, 2005 - 8:57 PMWell, Ben and Yoda came from the old-school way of training Jedi where it takes YEARS to fully train someone in the ways of the Force. Plus Ben had to come back from the dead in order to get Luke to go to Degobah, and then Ben had to convence Yoda to take Luke as a Padiwan. Yoda I'm sure had waited years after his defeat by the Emperor for this oppertunity to train one of the Skywalker twins and to bring back the Jedi Order. Not to mention that it was probably Yoda and Ben who orchestrated the escape and hidding of Luke and Leia. The destiny of the galaxy and the destiny of the Jedi Order was hangging on Luke's trip to Dagobah.
Luke stays with Yoda for all of what, two weeks, and then runs off to face Vader? Ben and Yoda must have been going Nuts! Luke had barely a beginner's concept of the Force and he runs off to fight one of the most powerful Sith Masters ever, not just a Sith Master, but a Sith Master who was formally trained as an Old Republic Jedi! Yoda and Ben wouldn't even go after Vader on thier own or as a team, and here gose whiney farmboy Luke to take out Vader on his own! Good thing there was another Skywalker! Ben and Yoda would have shat a Brick! Ben's like, "...he's our only hope..." Yoda's like, "That's cool, we still have the smart one..."
The problem with "doing the right thing" is that it the "right thing" is subjective. What is perceved as "right" by one individual is considered absolutley "evil" to another. Look at all the religions of this world; they all believe that they are doing the "right thing", but how well do they get along with each other? Take a look at all the cultures of this world, how many are wageing war with each other just because they believe that they are doing the "right thing". Democats and Republicans are at each other's throats because they each believe that thier "right thing" is the only "right thing". The highjackers who flew jets into the Trade Towers honestly believed that they where doing the "right thing"; they thought our concepts of individual rights and freedoms along with capitalisim to be the greatest evils in this world; meanwhile we think we're doing the "right thing" by allowing women to live as equals amoung men, and to allow other religions and other ways of life to florish.
Whether Luke's trip to Cloud City helped the escape of Leia, Chewbacca, and the Droids is debateble. Had Vader not been preoccupied with dueling Luke, Vader could have possibly been escorting Leia and others to his ship, thus stopping Lando's little insurrection. Then again, maybe Vader would have found other things to do on Cloud City, and Lando's insurrection would have gone off without a hitch. Whither Luke did the "right thing" is debateble, at least he and the others survived. Unfortunaltely Luke never got proper Jedi training, but the Jedi Order was eventually rebuilt in the novels. Leia saddly got very little training. Carrie Fisher with a lightsaber, now THAT would have been hot!
Ultamately all we can do in this life is to judge for oursleves what is "right", and to accept that other people will disagree with our perception of what is "right"; also there will come a moment when we individually will disagree with another person's perception of what is "right". That is when we must deside on how to handle such a situation. Do we stand there and expend our energy trying to make another person "wrong" so we can be "right", or do we take an action that serves our highest vision of who we are as individuals and DO what we individually believe is "right" without trying to make another person "wrong".
I don't believe that simply doing the "right thing" is what makes a Jedi, for it is impossible to make everyone in the galaxy agree to what is "right". What makes a Jedi, is the doing of what one believes is "right" without the need of making another person's percieved truth "wrong"; even if such an action gose against another's perception of what is "right". When one attempts to make another "wrong" in order to be "right", and when one imposes one's belief of what is ultamatley "right" upon another , that is when one crosses into the Darkside. So for example, a Catholic having BBQ with a Wiccan, vs a Catholic BBQing a Wiccan. They both have thier own truths, they both act according to what they believe is "right" even though they both disagree; the question is , shall they co-exsist , agreeing to disagree, or shall they attempt to force thier beliefs upon each other in order to prove that they are "right"? -
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Re: Luke's decisions
Sun, February 20, 2005 - 11:47 PMI suppose another good example of what I'm talking about is Anakin. Anakin wanted everything to run according to what he believed was "right". You see this in Episode II during the scene with Padime in the fields of Naboo.
Anakin, "...I don't think the system works."
Padime, " How would you have it work?"
Anakin, "We need a system where the politions sit down and discuss the problem and figure out what is in the best intrests of all the people, and then do it."
Padime, " That's exactly what we do, the trouble is that people don't always agree."
Anakin, "Then they should be made to..."
Padime, "By whom? Who's going to make them?"
Anakin, "I don't know, someone..."
Padime, "You?"
Anakin, "Of course not."
Padime, "But someone?"
Anakin, "Someone wise."
Padime, "Sounds a lot like a dictatorship to me."
Anakin, "Well, if it works."
Of course we see in Episode IV-VI he makes this his career. Anakin ultamately becomes the enforcer of his Emperor's decrees. As Vader, he makes people agree to what the Emperor dictates as "right", and if they don't agree, they are made "wrong" and are distroyed. We see this type of mentality through much of our own world.
The Rebellion of course fights back, because it dose not serve them to obey the Emperor. There were enough people to disagree with the Empire and to overthrow the Emperor; but was the Emperor and Vader ultamately "wrong"? That too is subjective, because to Vader and the Emperor mass genocide was "right", because it enforced what they believed to be the "right" way to run a galaxy. Appearently, everyone else in that same galaxy did not agree to what was being forced upon them.
I don't believe that a true Jedi seeks to make people "wrong" by enforcing what he or she believes is "right". That is why, I'm guessing, the Jedi did not run the Gallactic Senate. The Jedi kept to thier temple, and if the Supreme Chanclor needed their aide, they would discuss it in Council to see if it was nessary for them to get involved. The Jedi were moderators, negotiators, and peace makers, not enforcers, soldiers, or police. Thier job was not to make others "wrong" so they could be "right", but to find a way for everyone to live thier truths without distroying each other.
However, the Jedi lose sight of this at the end of Episode II when they find themselves fighting along side the Clone Troopers in Geonosis. That is why seeing Ben in Clone Trooper armor during the Clone Wars is so disterbing. The Jedi have been manipulated into becoming soldiers instead of negotiators. Thier numbers were small to start with, now with them fighting as soldiers their numbers will diminish at a blinding speed and by Episode III I'm pretty sure there will only be a handfull left. Anakin has only to mop up what's left, for the war has done most of the work for him.
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Re: Luke's decisions
Tue, February 22, 2005 - 12:15 PMEveryhting Obsidian says makes quite a bit of sense and is very insightful. I'd like to add that yes it did take years to teach Jedi and from the youngest of ages. Luke had to unlearn twice as much as he had to learn. To take the quick and easy route leads to the darkside. Who knows if what he did helped save his friends. Also there is no amount of time given betweencloud city and Jaba's palace. Luke went through a lot between those times and it shows in his demeanor and his abilities. Though it is still slightly eveident that he lacked the formal training of an Old Republic Jedi. Yes in Luke's reality he did beleive what he was doing was right, neither he nor Yoda could really see what the future held. I believe Luke leaving his traiing early to face the most powerful Sith lord was somewhat egotistical and shortsighted, and ultimately his first small step toward the dark side. Every Jedi does make their own decisions, otherwise Anakin never would have been a Jedi. -
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Re: Luke's decisions
Fri, February 25, 2005 - 12:58 AMI agree.
We each must choose what is "right" for us and then act on it, otherwise we'll never leave the house.
You know what most people between the ages of 90 and 100 regret upon thier death bed? ( and this was an actual study)
They didn't regret the things that they Did, but instead regreted what they did Not do. So many things they wish they had done, but too afriad of doing the "wrong" thing.
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